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Grace

I haven't read your full blog entry yet. but I'd like to let you know that that is not necessarily the case. Autism and Schizophrenia, while being different disorders, have similar genetic patterns and do tend to run in families, although they seem to be the opposite problem. This is common in genetics, and although it is paradoxical, it has been a well documented trend over the last 100 years of studying genetics. She was not being derogatory. It is becoming more common in autistic literature that the Broad Autism Phenotype is coming about, but you can't actually publish anything unless it is 100% provable. Therefore, you need to read inbetween the lines to understand what the author is saying. Its a different use of logic then the one you're used to. If you actually understood the article, the definition of autism they were using was simply after 1987, because the subjects looked at had to be at least 10 at age diagnosis if using an old diagnosis (1987), or 5 if using the new diagnosis (2008). Autism spectrum disorders, specifically aspergers, run in my family. I understand how offensive researchers can sound, but researchers have their heads in the clouds because they are thinking so deeply about the subject they work on. They dedicate their entire life to one subject, and I really respect that. If you need to be angry at something, don't pick on the researchers. Pick on society or something more relevant to the problem. There is nothing wrong with being autistic or having aspergers. The DSM IV is outdated, and their definitions are being revised currently. If you read more than one article, then you'll see that. The DSM IV was written at a time when the Autism Spectrum wasn't very well understood, and it doesn't account for coping mechanisms. In the research community, it is well understood that the DSM IV is only accurate for severe cases. Before you go on a rant, please immerse yourself in the literature so you actually understand the language, and therefore what they are saying. You're using the wrong definitions.

One Sick Mother

Grace,


I didnt read your full comment because you didnt read my full piece.  However I am not going to waste either of our time commenting on your comment that I didnt read, because I may make points that you already made that *I* had already made and it would all get a bit redundant. 

OSM

Grace

I read your full entry as soon as I got home, and I wasn't flaming you, I had class to get to. If you take the time to read my full comment, you'll see that. If not, oh well. I wanted to have a serious discussion about the subject, because like you, Autism runs in my family. And I explained what you saw as flaws in her research, because this is a field I am looking to be scientifically involved in. I'm not going to re invent the wheel here, but if you want to understand from the perspective of the researcher and their implications of the above mentioned article, read my post.

One Sick Mother

I find comments along the lines of  "I didn't bother to read all of what you had to say, but this is where you're wrong" to be rude, unproductive and unworthy of my time. I will read your original comment and respond in detail later.

In the meantime, if you wish to add or change anything; -having actually read the full piece, feel free to do so.

OSM

Grace

Thank you.

Grace

Also there is one flaw in my first comment, being that the age at diagnosis had to be the age of 10. In addition, in order to participate in this kind of study there are consent forms, so the parents were aware that they were being involved in an analysis. If they did not agree with the diagnosis, they were probably not included.

One Sick Mother

Let's address all of these comments from you, shall we? (to be continued -typepad idiosyncrasies necessitate some finessing on the comments, sometimes)

OK. Now I can use punctuation. Sorta. Your original comments are enclosed in these **

*I haven't read your full blog entry yet. but I'd like to let you know that that is not necessarily the case.*

What exactly, isn't necessarily the case, Grace? I made more than one point in the entire piece.

*Autism and Schizophrenia, while being different disorders, have similar genetic patterns and do tend to run in families, *

I agree. The contentious point is if they run together or separately in those families.

*although they seem to be the opposite problem.* That is a matter of opinion . See my piece on autistic myths.

*This is common in genetics, and although it is paradoxical, it has been a well documented trend over the last 100 years of studying genetics.* Autism hasn't been around as a diagnosis for 100 years, so I call bullshit on that statement.

*She was not being derogatory. It is becoming more common in autistic literature that the Broad Autism Phenotype is coming about, but you can't actually publish anything unless it is 100% provable.* I didn't say she was being derogatory. I said she is probably WRONG.

*Therefore, you need to read inbetween the lines to understand what the author is saying. Its a different use of logic then the one you're used to.* ohhh. The Sooper Seekrit Hidden Meaning Defence, with a side of "you're stupid" thrown in for good measure. But you're not flaming me, right?

*If you actually understood the article, the definition of autism they were using was simply after 1987, because the subjects looked at had to be at least 10 at age diagnosis if using an old diagnosis (1987), or 5 if using the new diagnosis (2008). Autism spectrum disorders, specifically aspergers, run in my family.* You've lost me on these points, and then you tried to correct and lost me again, but I think they are irrelevant, because the points I was making about misdiagnosis was not about the 1977-2003 generation. It was about the previous generations. The parents; most of whom were evaluated before Autism was heard of.

*I understand how offensive researchers can sound, but researchers have their heads in the clouds because they are thinking so deeply about the subject they work on. They dedicate their entire life to one subject, and I really respect that. If you need to be angry at something, don't pick on the researchers.*

I'm not choosing researchers on which to vent my "anger" Shoddy work makes me angry. Being WRONG and publishing resulting dross makes me angry.

*Pick on society or something more relevant to the problem.* What? Society causes Autism now? It's not genetic with an environmental insult? Please publish something on this, quick, so I can rip it to shreds

*There is nothing wrong with being autistic or having aspergers.* I never said there was. Both my kids are on the Spectrum, remember? And they are perfect.

*The DSM IV is outdated, and their definitions are being revised currently.* I used the ICD in most of the piece, because that's what's in use in Sweden. But I agree that it's outdated. But if you are trying to say the ICD or DSM is wrong, then you are saying the entire study shoudl be thrown out, because it has no basis in anything.

*If you read more than one article, then you'll see that.* Yes that's rigfht. I have only ever read one article in my entire life.

*The DSM IV was written at a time when the Autism Spectrum wasn't very well understood, and it doesn't account for coping mechanisms. In the research community, it is well understood that the DSM IV is only accurate for severe cases.*
I didn't see any disclaimers in the Daniels' study.

*Before you go on a rant, please immerse yourself in the literature so you actually understand the language, and therefore what they are saying. You're using the wrong definitions.* So now I'm stupid, uninformed and linguistically impaired. But you're not flaming me, right?

And I'll rant all I want! (although I didn't rant very much here at all -for me) This IS my blog. Hello?

SECOND COMMENT


*I read your full entry as soon as I got home, and I wasn't flaming you, I had class to get to. If you take the time to read my full comment, you'll see that.* See what? That you had a class to get to? (no, don't see it). Or that you weren't flaming me? (Don't see that, either)

*If not, oh well. I wanted to have a serious discussion about the subject,* No, you didn't. You wanted to tell me how wrong and stupid I was. Had you wanted a discussion, you would have asked at least ONE question or asked for a clarification, maybe. Or maybe included a friendly overture. You didn't.

*because like you, Autism runs in my family.And I explained what you saw as flaws in her research,* No, you didn't. You 'splained that poor Dr daniels must have her head in the clouds and I was reading the study all wrong because ethics constraints meant that the Real Meaning of the study was -not in the content- but between the lines.
*because this is a field I am looking to be scientifically involved in. I'm not going to re invent the wheel here,* Actually, I think you just did. Tell me more about this between-the-line-reading of study presentation.

*but if you want to understand from the perspective of the researcher and their implications of the above mentioned article, read my post.* I did. It didn't help her case (or yours) at all. Sorry.

*Also there is one flaw in my first comment, being that the age at diagnosis had to be the age of 10. In addition, in order to participate in this kind of study there are consent forms, so the parents were aware that they were being involved in an analysis. If they did not agree with the diagnosis, they were probably not included.*
So there were 32,237 consent forms signed for this study? Impressive. Prove it.

"Grace": Again, you have completely missed my core point: That the Schizophrenia diagnosis of the PARENTS was probably incorrect. Not that the Autism/AS/PDD diagnoses may be incorrect.

You'll be a fabulous researcher because you seem incapable of grasping the macro as opposed to the micro picture.

God help us all.

Georgia Scott

the parents drank the same milk from the same family of cows

Lulu

Okay.. Well I found this site after someone told me that a teen couldn't get diagnosed with schizophrenia when he has autism. Im a nurse that just graduated and know that this is crazy after taking psych. I also have a son who is autistic and never lol...have anyone in either family been diag. With Any mental disorder. But what I do agree with is the old dr.s who need to please continue their education and keep current. I can't believe the crap they say and all i say is google it cause thats not current practice. So thank you for clarifying what I already knew. I will tell them to get a second opinion because the dr. Might be using the 4 As. Cause even I know there is a huge different between the two diagnosis being discussed here.

Sharon

So...is Autism = Schizophrenia? Or Schizophrenia = Autism?
Im actually writing a paper for my Psych Class and am trying to gather info on the two so I can write about if they are the same or not. My step father was diagnosed with Schizophrenia after an accident and my 2 little brothers (james - Full Brother, and Bubba - half-brother) are diagnosed with autism, one being more severe than the other. James has Aspergers Syndrome and Bubba's is..more severe. Bubba is my stepfathers son and James is my fathers son. Could that mean that the two cases are x-linked through my mother and Bubba's is a more severe case BECAUSE his father is schizophrenic? ...My psych teacher said no while my biology teacher said maybe. (Im just looking for feedback for my psych paper).

Christine Morgan

maybe we could help you.....we have a 24 yr old autistic son who is regressing quite badly and is showing all the symptoms of schizophrenia. He also has epilepsy, dyspraxia and semantic pragmatic disorder. please email me on [email protected]
if you are interested for any project or assignment you may need to do for your studies.
Regards, cris

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